THE SILENT EMOTIONAL CRISIS: COMING HOME TO WHO YOU ALREADY ARE ft. ROHNE

0:00 Never give up. Asking for help is an option even if you're not taught. Don't give up on yourself and be courageous and look for the help no matter how it looks. Keep looking and you will find the help.

0:24 Hello and welcome back to another episode of Everyday Conversations and our new host, Amin Mumbani. If you haven't subscribed yet, go and do that new episodes every week. My guest today is an incredible voice in the entrepreneurial space and the creator of the concept Silent Emotional crisis. Today, we are exploring the intersection of emotional patterns and entrepreneur success and how understanding that intersection can reshape the way entrepreneurs lead, grow and actually experience the success.

0:54 Let's welcome her to the show. So, Rowan, welcome to Everyday Conversation. Thank you, Amin. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here and share this space and having this conversation with you right now. How are you doing? How are you doing today? It's start of the week. And how's the weather treating you? You know, here it's peak summer season in Texas and mostly trying to stay indoors avoiding peak heat. So but it's another beautiful day here and completely enjoying every other day to the fullest.

1:32 I heard that in Dallas because I have relatives in Dallas, so they told it's very hot right now there. This year it's been a little intense, so you know it's all right, you know it is Texas, so nothing is too off the radar. OK, so you built a career in banking and technology. You moved across the world, hit milestones you would have once dreamed of. What did that version of success actually felt like?

2:04 Wow. Yeah. Like, you know, after I moved to US, you know, my career was in global banking, you know, with huge banks like Wells Fargo, Barclays, and it was just amazing. I had never thought about it, you know, most of my life in USI had never thought anything much about how it would pan out. But it's just, you know, if you want to look at external success, it was beyond what I even, you know, I have never, I never imagined it, but it was like the best, you know, especially my longest, you know, time in one of the global banks.

2:39 The culture was so good, you know, people were so good. So it was really a joy going to work everyday and especially, you know, doing the work I was doing as well. So it was absolutely fantastic. And you know, living in US itself, you know, I used to do a lot of solo travelling also. So that was amazing because we have such distinct landscapes, you know, it's very diverse. So got to experience all that and continue to experience that. That's pretty good. I have been experienced that in USI went to Memphis by Rd.

3:15 from Dallas from Dallas to Memphis, A7 hour journey. So I was I loved the scenic view, the the farms, the farmhouses near Arkansas. So I really loved that, the view on the road drive and I was like, it's amazing, it's amazing. Yeah, I mean, driving here is the best for me. I think driving tops number one for me here. I really feel like I'm so free and it's actually a pleasure to just go out and drive here. It's really good. Yeah. I mean, Rd. trips are, you know, you have to just experience if you and you just fall in love with and especially if you have a great company, you know, you just have fun driving those long stretches because you get to experience the local culture.

4:03 You have that opportunity as well. So it's really fun. Rd. trips are really fun here.

4:10 So don't you describe that feeling disconnected, exhausted, empty, broke, even while everything on paper looked it was working. So when did you first notice that gap? So The thing is, yeah, on the outside, you know, things are happening. You know, things are looking, feeling great. You know, there is a certain fulfillment when your career is going very well and you are like experiencing a new country and success and people are appreciating you. You know, it's a different level of experience and it's a different kind of experience from what I had previously experienced.

4:49 So it was really nice. The emotional challenges particularly came in my personal life with my family, with my relationships. So it was really contrasting experience. So outside it was good and when I would be at work I would try to disconnect and really enjoy that because once you get home I had to. There was nowhere to run. I had to face the things I was dealing with emotionally. I had a lot of difficult chapters, probably from my late teens, you know, it started and now I'm talking about it in retrospect.

5:28 So I definitely see it in a different point of view. So very difficult chapters, even as a young adult. And then you carry them on and there are peaks, right? There are peaks and depths. So the beginning, you know, the, it was the best of times and also like the worst of times. So the starting few years when I came to us, I was doing really well on the outside, but I was really struggling. There was some family crisis and being an immigrant, being alone in US and not having the kind of support that you need or you hope to have for dealing with, you know, emotional crisis and stuff like that.

6:15 That was really challenging. At the same time as you are there, you also, you know, I felt like in USI had this freedom because, you know, a lot of things are taken away when you move from India to here. A lot of things disappear overnight, right, which we kind of culturally have. But at the same time you start digging for resources within you. That also happens when you're not outsourcing every other part, you know, of your life or conversation or your misery or, you know, challenges to other people or just complaining about them because I found that I couldn't complain about to anybody else.

6:54 So you have to start mining within like you just have you go to a place, I wouldn't say voluntarily, but involuntarily you're put in a corner and you just have to kind of like start like because you know, being an engineer and just working in the tech space and very analytical kind of thought process. So you just start doing the same thing with your personal life as well or with the crisis that you're dealing with. So you get very practical, OK, I have to survive. You know, I can't keep going like this.

7:28 You know, you have to trash the situation. So what? So you have to kind of you become resilient very quick, especially when there are difficult chapters. It's again up to the person how what you know, what things they're reaching out to for comfort or for how do I face this challenges? How do I end? Like if you're in a very like survival mode, I would say that you would only want to deal with the basics. You don't want anything extra. So then I had like this baseline where I was like, this is all I can deal with in the emotional state I am.

8:03 So you start eliminating a lot of things. So that happened very quickly for me in the initial years I was here, you know, which was like, I don't know, 18 years ago. So that kind of, you know, helped me quite a bit at that time, becoming a stronger individual, becoming resilient and digging and mining my inner resources, though not so consciously at that point, but just trying to and trying my best to survive and make it through. Ron, you've said you're living from survival instead of your authentic self.

8:40 Yeah. So what's the difference in practice between these two ways of living, the survival and the authentic self? Yeah, so this is what, you know, I coined this term called a silent emotional crisis, and it didn't happen overnight. It's like it took me decades to kind of put this thing together. And basically silent emotional crisis is that gap that we start experiencing between our authentic self and the yourself or the personality that we create to survive, to succeed, to be safe in some environment or to belong in a community, even your own family sometimes.

9:28 You know all these things. And pretty much it starts happening in childhood. And then what happens is that is like a disconnect, that is like a gap and it starts widening over a period of time. So it's like experiencing a split and then the gap starts widening. And this gap is what I call like silent emotional crisis because the more it widens, again, everybody is unique, right? We have to look at circumstances. How was their childhood? What are the difficult chapters in their life experiences that they face?

10:03 So as this gap widens, you know, a lot of people perform very well as well, like, you know, somebody like me and I was in high performing environments for decades. So I saw this pattern very consistent. And again, with entrepreneurs, last decade, I've spent time coaching entrepreneurs and I would like to see a lot of entrepreneurs take their trauma and create businesses in a lot of cases. So again, where is this coming from? Why am I calling it a trauma? Or, you know, it's the survival. It's like, how do I survive the situation?

10:38 So either people funnel it to like ambition, you know, external success, money, right? Or oh, I'll go find somebody and that person will make me happy, you know, relationships. Or I'll go create this business, you know, they'll try to distract some, distract themselves by doing something. And that is gratifying. That gives us that external happiness, but only to a certain point. So survival, the reason I call it survival is because you are developing this mechanism and but, but on the inside, it's very painful.

11:17 You are like suffering, you're in pain. You're probably like, you know, very disconnected with who you really are. You know, you're that child, you know, that little child who never got to be who he was. And then you have developed all these external mechanisms and you kind of get caught up in it and you don't know how to like, go back. And sometimes when the gap widens, there are breaking points too, right? Like some people can lead their whole life, you know, doing this and still make it out. You know, they'll, they'll say, yeah, I had a, you know, good life from the from the outside.

11:54 But again, it depends on how severe some of their life challenges were. And sometimes people don't make it. They reach a breaking point where this gap is so wide, there is no coming back. And they take extreme, you know, decisions like I myself. Then after, like when I was at the age of 33, after about, you know, a few good, successful, externally successful years. It was so painful for me. I didn't care how much money I had. I was actually, you know, doing very well externally, as I said. But I just, I was at a point that was my rock bottom.

12:32 I was like, you know what, I'm done. I want an exit. I planned my own death. I was like, I'm taking myself out. I'm going to kill myself. That was like, as logically, I'm, I'm talking to you, it was just like that, like I'm done. So the breaking point can be different for different people. And again, the consequences of that breaking point can be different. So it becomes very personalized. But I feel like this breaking point when somebody reaches because of whatever situations they have been through can be different.

13:08 But we need to catch, you know, catch people before that because I personally have lost loved ones who have taken that extreme measure. And I myself was there. And, you know, if you look at the statistics today, suicide rates are so high. And especially in men, you know, I think globally it's like even, you know, the gender also has a difference and men is double. Like in US it's one is to four, I think. And globally it's one is to 2. And, you know, we got to talk about it. Why are they reaching, reaching that breaking point?

13:42 Why are we not catching them before? So I think me being myself for decades, you know, like how I said late teams to, you know, now I'm in my early 40s. So it's a lot of stuff coming together and observing layers of patterns based on what work they do. And again, because I've had the good fortune of observing 2 cultures, you know, I've lived, I grew up in India and for almost 2 decades I've been living in US. There is so many dynamics, permutations, combinations that play out for everybody. So that's critical to understand.

14:21 And my hope is that is why I'm trying to give this language to people. Silent emotional crisis. We and we need to have language, have a forum to talk about it, you know, and everybody likes, OK, this is what it is. So I want I created this label so that people could have this language and have the forum to talk about it and also reach out for help and get the help because there's definitely way out of emotional crisis. Roon, I don't understand one thing. I speak. I've spoken to someone who were dealing in mental health as well.

15:04 Right. I don't know why this was not highlighted much before and now it's getting highlighted and people are not even taking care of this. Like as you said we need to catch people who are into those crisis right now. Why it's not getting stopped, I don't know. Well, I can tell you it's very simple after, you know, at this point, I can tell you, you know, each human being is a sacred, you know, entry into the world. When we are born, you know, it's a blessing. No matter who you are, no matter where you're born, a birth of a human being is a sacred opportunity to experience life.

15:48 But what do we do? You know, depending on where we are, within like half an hour or probably an hour, we get so many labels, right? Indian American, this gender, this religion, blah, blah, blah. OK. And then based on that, their conditioners, their programmers, and I will also tell you one more thing that how many parents do you know, Amin? They're actually what is the intent to have a child? What is their intent? I haven't. Thought of that actually. In the population is growing, right, It's growing every day everybody knows it but what is the intent?

16:31 So I'll I'll just tell you from like commonly, right so if you look at it somebody wants to experience fatherhood, right? Somebody wants to experience motherhood. 2 people come together. I'm just, you know, stereotyping it, keeping it very It's just. Just a normal one, yeah. Yeah, coming together, they're like, OK, we want to expand this love, but they're thinking only about themselves. Oh, we want to create something. They think they are creating the chat. If only they had such powers. That's true.

17:01 Yeah. The in the womb, they're not like, oh, today I'm going to give this child this nose this year. Oh my God. I wouldn't want to imagine if we ever given those choices, what kind of babies would come out. But there is higher power at play. OK, You are the. You are just the instrument. But the intent is people are bringing life in thinking that they are the creators, all right? And also it's mostly selfish reasons, right? I want to become a mother. I want to experience motherhood. It's that desire.

17:34 It's that desire to, I want to experience a family. So the intent itself is very like taking intent. It's not a giving intent if you switch that intent and say that, all right, I have this desire, right, to bring life into this world as this couple, you know, both mother and father want to like now have a child. And they say we want to bring this life into this new life, into this world. And this life is coming through us. And we are going to do the best to, of course, protect the child because when the child is young, but you know, do the healthiest things for the child and be a giver.

18:19 I'm going to give and give and give because I chose to do this. The child then come in your dream and say, hey, I'm waiting. When are you going to, you know, bring me into this world? So you chose to do that. So you have to become selfless from the minute you decide that you are going to make that decision to bring a child into this world, right. And also to answer your question a little bit, and generally as well, you know, there is a way of life as well. See today, look at the population, how people are living.

18:53 Anybody can create a big right. Anybody can get married and have a family, do all sorts of things. But there is a right way of doing as well. And that is the difference. You asked me why are so many people in crisis? Why? Because we are not taught, OK about our true nature. OK, So we're not, we don't know when we are born. We are ignorant about the true nature of our being itself. No life itself. What is the meaning of life? So that I know these seem like very big philosophical questions, but this is the reason we are seeing these consequences.

19:32 If we know what is the nature, true nature of our being and then all these things that we are given. I like this line very much Blessings when ignore become purses. So when when somebody is born, they have and again, I'm talking about an average normal scenario. They have a good body, they have a good mind, right? What do what do people do? Corrupt the mind tell this child what they're supposed to do blah, blah blah. You you get the scene there body. You know, there is so much like. Attacks on the body also, right?

20:11 So and do we treat the body well? So you're ignoring your blessings that you have been given, You're mistreating your body, you're not eating healthy and take it from there A-Z, right? What about your mind? We don't know the nature of our mind. You know, the mind itself controls how, what kind of life, you know, what kind of reality we are creating. So nobody knows, you know, I'm talking most average people. We do not know the power of our mind. And then, you know, again, nature comes under spirit or so whatever you want to call.

20:46 And the senses, right? The five senses, how do we be like? How do we use our senses in a healthy way? Not in a unhealthy way, right? So it's a combination factors. We are not taught what is life itself, what is living life. There is a way to do certain things. So that is why when we don't know, we are ignorant, we grow up, we do whatever TV, you know, TV ads are basically manipulating us or our parents are telling do this. So we just blindly do it. And then there are repercussions. And another unfortunate thing is the day and age, the generation that your parents grew up or my parents grew up, we are not living in that generation anymore.

21:31 So what they teach us is also not at all applicable. It's become invalid already. So it's very hard. So these are the many things, right? So that is why people are suffering, because they're ignorant, they're unconscious, but you know, help is there. They have to go looking for the looking for that. They have to have courage. That's the prerequisite. I would say they. Actually, they actually need to know their existence. Why? Why is the main thing which they need to find out? If they find out that thing, I think so half of the problem of the whole world is solved.

22:11 Ron, I go back to your previous reply. You have shared that you reach one of the darkest points of your life. Yeah, a point where you didn't see a way forward. So what helped you begin moving forward from that point? You can share as much as you are comfortable sharing. OK. Now thank you for asking that question. I want to talk about this, you know, as much as possible in like great depth, in a short way, because this is also one of the reasons I do the work that I do. So what happened to me was when I was at that suicidal point, I had like this, like, OK, this week I'm going to execute it.

22:55 I had like everything planned out, all the instruments that I needed, everything was precisely set up. I was waiting. There is a moment and you know, I tried to do this in even in my teenage years, not in as serious I was at this time, but I was waiting. You have to wait for a moment. So I was waiting. So what happened was strangely, as I said, I was like very, very depressed, you know, very dark place, very isolated, separated from everything for years almost. But then I was like talking to a friend, just like we were having a regular conversation and I was going on about like all this changes, you know, nothing is permanent in this life.

23:43 You think something, you know, you can depend on something. And I was talking about some something about change. And this other person, my friend, he got bored of it. He just said, don't talk to me about all the spiritual stuff. I don't want to hear it. And that would trigger something because that word spiritual didn't exist in my dictionary in my life at all. I mean, and, you know, growing up in India ritualistically, I would say, I wouldn't say in a true way I grew up as a Hindu or I was taught anything.

24:16 Did the rituals, you know, celebrate the festivals, eat the food? You know, that's pretty much the extent of my religion that I knew. And when I'm, when I'd moved to US, I was struggling as well. And I just kind of, you know, happened to, you know, I was a very secular person even in India. I didn't have any prejudices against any religion. My childhood growing up, you know, was very secular. I went to Kendriya with the earlier schools, which are very secular. So my friend is one of my friend is Christian, one is, you know, we are going to Gurudwara Tudulangar.

24:52 You know, it's all mixed up. I see myself just, you know, as an Indian, mostly because of that kind of schooling that I had. So coming here, I kind of, as I was saying, I had some family crisis going on and it was very difficult. I started going to like Bible studies because one of my friend was going and she invited me and, and even back home, one of our family friends who was a Christian was helping my mother out. So I just wanted solace. I wanted, you know, prayers. I wanted to go pray about my, you know, it helps when you're in doing and also it's very, it was very nice because other people also would pray for you.

25:34 So anyway, Long story short about my religious adventures, I kind of, you know, became a Christian because I wanted to be like them. They were so compassionate. I had never met such kind people. So but, you know, nothing was helping. And the reason I did it was to kind of like help, you know, I was looking for solutions and I would do anything like even during that time, I went to like these chronic healing classes in India. You know, I had this teacher, but that thing was working. I was just looking for solutions.

26:06 And if somebody told me anything, I would go do it. I had no like filters or any conditions. If you say this thing works, I'll pray. If you say this thing works, I'll do this. So anyway, coming back to the phone conversation, I know religion, OK? I've experimented, I've done things spiritual. Nah, this word. I was like, why is he talking like this? What? What is even spirituality? I didn't know, but that triggered something in me. And then the call ended because this person got tired of hearing me blab about some impermanence, impermanence in the world, and he was not interested in talking.

26:44 And he hung up on me and I was like, very curious, you know, I'm a very curious person in general. If, if some word doesn't, if I don't understand, I like looking it up. So I looked it up. I was like, what does this mean? What does this word spiritual mean? And then, you know, I was, you know, going to my best friend Google and looking up some stuff. And something started triggering that that search, that Google search triggered something. What happened was I had physical sensations, bodily sensations where I had like itching all over my body.

27:15 Starting from here, I was like I suddenly got started getting very itchy. I started scratching myself and the way I mean it's very vivid. That whole experience for me whenever I recall it is very vivid. I'll keep it short. It was like almost like shedding of a skin. You know when you see a snake's, I know the skin that a snake has shed. It was almost like that. I felt like I was peeling of the skin and I was like itching because of that. I felt like that. So it was very weird. And you have to understand my emotional state because of where I was very dark, right?

27:47 I was like, OK, And I was very like in a very extreme dark emotional state. This physical sensation started. I got a little bit like, OK, what's happening to me? I want to see myself in the mirror. So I'd run into the bathroom and I'm like itching and looking at myself in the mirror. And then what happens is there, I don't know what happens, but something happens. You know, there is this voice that I now understand is the voice of your mind, right? This is your there, you know, this is, this is a common thing that we hear.

28:21 There's the devil's voice and there is the angel's voice. Everybody knows kind of this, but I didn't correlate it that much. But the voice that was helping me execute my decision was very critical, demeaning of me. That strong voice, I could hear it 24 bar 7. And that is the voice that was helping me execute like, you know, kill myself also like, oh, are we ready? Have you got all the things that we need? So there is that voice and there are also your these very faint whispers of your heart. You know, it's coming from a place deep inside you call it your heart.

28:59 I mean, depends on your vocabulary, I guess. I called it my heart. There is whispers which says that don't worry, it's OK. You know, you're it's OK. Everybody makes mistakes. You made a mistake. So the mistake that had led me, let me actually cover that. You know, I had had layers of emotional crisis from my family side in India. I personally was in a casual relationship at the point I had divorced and all of that after a year or something, I was in a casual relationship and then unexpectedly I had gotten pregnant.

29:34 And of course, this person walks away and then I'm stuck making the decision myself. And I logically made the decision which suited my environment and me, which was to have an abortion. It was very logical. I was very practical when I made that decision. But the aftermath is very emotional, right? It wasn't so great once I had executed that decision. The emotional aftermath is what actually pushed me over the brain. That was like the nail in the coffin kind of a situation. I couldn't deal with it anymore and it was so new and having like nobody to talk about it.

30:14 It was just isolation, complete isolation. So that place, right when you're like there, my heart was like, it's OK, everybody makes mistake. God Forgives you and you don't have to. But you know, you don't forgive me yourself. This other voice doesn't forgive you. So it's like the battle between the two. So when I ran to the mirror, right, and I was having this physical sensation, at that time, what I experienced was one extreme dark emotional state. Suddenly, as I was having those physical sensations, I had this experience in the mirror as well.

30:51 This is all happening simultaneously, so I'm just gonna say it, even though I'm saying it sequentially. Go ahead. Go ahead. I saw it in the mirror and I mean I can't even tell you. It was as if like something within my eyes only existed. I know I can see my image, but I know that is not my image anymore. I could experience the witness that we have in the body. I don't know. I mean, I find it very difficult to find words every time I talk about it, but I experienced and I like it was almost like a, you know, Oh my God, oh, this is not you who you are.

31:33 This reflection is not who you are. You see this, this thing inside you, that is who you are. I had that experience and then, you know, I was still having very intense physical sensations. I almost like, you know, I felt like I was like dizzy and I started looking around the bathroom and the whole, you know, like I had curtain and the walls, everything just blended in. Like there was this like waves of energy particles, shimmering light kind of stuff. So it was like very confusing for me. And then and the itching continued and, and the last thing that happened simultaneously was this overflowing sense of joy and unconditional love.

32:20 Like, you know, because of how guilty I was feeling, I felt like I was embraced by this the warmest loving, just unconditional. I was in the space where I was home. I was home and I I won't say it was it felt like something because I have never felt like that in my physical body. So I will not, you know, diminish that. So it was something beyond had ever experienced. And then I got very scared because all of this is having happening simultaneously. I got very scared because, you know, I was living alone.

32:57 I was like, Oh my God, I'm I'm having a psychotic break. I think I need to call 911. Like I was scared. So what happened was I wanted to call 911, but I was like, you know what, I'll call a colleague of mine before I call 911, see if she can help me with some resources. I said, do you know anybody? She's like, no, I don't know anybody. So I was like, OK, fine. But I was like, you know what I mean? Calling 91911 at that point was a big deal, you know, because people, you know, the you'll get admitted, you know?

33:33 So I was like, you know what, this whole thing that had ensued that evening, right? The triggering of the world and you know everything I was like, what? Something spiritual. I know, I don't know what the spiritual thing. Let me Google something. So I went back to my best friend, Google spiritual. I'm doing some search, spiritual helpline, and I actually get a helpline. The first information that I get is called as American Center for Spiritually Transformative Experiences, and there was a helpline number.

34:02 I called it immediately. It went to the voicemail, unfortunately, and I was like, OK, I don't have an option. I'm gonna go call that 911. So I was contemplating that, but I this lady calls me back. She's like, yeah, I got your voicemail. What's happening? And then I literally like wobbly throw up on her because I was in like a little bit of a chaotic, you know, because it was still happening to me. I was in the middle of it and I share my experience with her and she's like, I ask her, am I going mad?

34:36 And she's like, no, sweetie, you're having a spiritual awakening. And then she just guides me and tells me how to take care of myself for the next few days, you know, or, you know, just And then she asked me about my situation. And she quickly discovers that, OK, this girl is on our own. Let me keep an eye on her. So she says she'll call in and check in on me every other, you know, week or so. She did that for six months and, you know, today it's it's been a decade since that night. Today I know that if there are 8 billion people in the world today, that there are 8 billion paths, ways to awakening and to the, you know, to coming home, to feeling that, to coming to that space.

35:24 And you know, I've met a lot of people who have had very traumatic or some people have had, oh, I was reading a book and I woke up, you know, like that kind of. I've met people who for whom it's been that simple. But for me, no matter what my journey was to that moment, in that moment, I was in a pretty elevated emotionally high state. I was in the other extreme of the dark state I was in in a matter of a few minutes. That is what scared me the most. How? Because in my mind, I was like, nothing changed.

35:56 How am I in this high state? Why am I feeling happiness? Why am I feeling this? Whatever I'm feeling? But I could, I could feel that it was very loving, you know, energy. So then that is why, you know, I, you know, if I had to use one word for my story, it will always be unconditional love because it was experience of that unconditional love for me in that moment. And then, yeah, that, that split second, you know, I call it grace also, you know, by God's grace, the illusion ended and I woke up, I was able to, you know, I realized my true nature.

36:36 And then because I was in such a high state emotionally, I stayed in that state for almost like a year and a half. Like very like, I'm like, you know, levitating, almost feeling wise. It was great. And then, you know, integration, you just, you know, start doing things and you balance it out. But yeah, it's been 10 years. Sometimes I would wonder, oh, will it go away? It hasn't gone yet. So I think I'm pretty, I've I've crystallized it a little bit. So spiritual awakening. And again, there are many other labels I'm in last decade, you know, every time I read about, you know, I'll pick up a book and you know, some sort of spiritual book in any religion, you go right.

37:21 I don't cater to those labels too much because it can get very heady. I just stay very basic because my path was, I would say very like, you know, it was trauma driven and you know, it was a lot of other stuff. And a lot of we live in a world, I mean, today that a lot of us will have this path because nobody's telling us or nobody's teaching us these things. We are going to learn it the hard way. I think I would say one thing that you really worked hard that way to get out of that situation and that shift became the foundation of the work you do now, right?

38:05 Yes, completely. Ever since that night, of course. Because there is a disconnect, right? I'm not this body. I'm not this mind. The voices went away. So who am I? I know that now, right? I've experienced that now. So everybody is the same. It's not. I'm not special, OK? Everyone of us is the same. We all come from the same ocean. They're just different streams from that same ocean. We all have individual names temporarily, right? What goes back, you know, after somebody dies, you know, what goes back and merges into the ocean?

38:45 It's only that. So everybody is, you know, either it's the same, everybody comes from the same place. We go back to the same place. And it is this in between space, right? When we are here for a few years, Oh my God, the things that we are pursuing, what we are doing, the nonsense in our head, the garbage, the things we are taught. I mean, I feel like last decade I've just been unlearning stuff, right? Because by 7 first seven years, I mean, we are programmed, all of us by our parents, you know, our environment, culture, religion, blah, blah, blah, whatever.

39:27 So the first seven years of programming that happens for any child, if they don't consciously unlearn and install, you know, healthy programs and apps and everything, just like on a phone, it's basically like using somebody else's phone and you're wondering why is this phone not working the way I want it to work? Because you have all the wrong apps installed by somebody else. You never got a brand new phone. I mean, you were born as a brand new phone, but then within that first seven years everybody else in the world had access to you and installed whatever apps they wanted to run on you.

40:05 And now I. Remember a very good. I remember a very good saying. I don't remember exactly what to it. I used to listen to Sadhguru a lot. OK. The mistake and mistakes. Yeah. So I was listening to, you know, if you are also listening to him, I'm a big fan of him. OK. So I used to listen to his podcast or his small bite size all the time when I'm at the gym daily. So sometimes he used to say that when my daughter was born, I let her stay free. I do not want people to install things on her mind. Yeah.

40:44 So because of you said something, I just remembered this from Sadhguru that he was like this. Yeah. If I sent her there, if I sent her there, she will just learn Mary had a lab this and that. He he used to say that precisely and so amazing manner. You know how he speaks. Yeah, people are fan from how he speak. Yeah. So he he said this thing and then he came to something which is mental diarrhea that you keep on installing things on your mind. Yeah. And you cannot flush it out. Yeah. So staying awake.

41:20 So all these things sum up all together. Yeah, but amazing, amazing job by you. What you did and the work you are doing is mostly with high achievers as you said. Yeah, it is with high achievers, because there are certain survival mechanisms that I'm very familiar. With so why? Why with high achievers? Why this particular group is struggled to admit that something is wrong, even to themselves? So the reason like it's taken me a decade, I'll give you a very like entertaining quick question of my last decade.

41:56 I mean, after that night, I literally was like, I'm, I have a very cushy job. As I told you, I used to enjoy my job. Also, people love me at work. I love them amazing culture at work. So I actually continued doing that work. Didn't really I was like, and also how do you in my mind at that time? First of all, I enjoyed my happy state for almost like a year and a half, two years. OK. And after that you're just like floating around, you know, having a happy time, really just, you know, because after years of suffering and being in misery and pain, I really wanted to enjoy that experience.

42:32 And as you're living, you know, intentional conscious life, I actually, I mean, never thought or there was no intent that, oh, I am now going to help others because this has happened to me. How do I help others have that experience? What did I do? Where is that mechanism? Where is the framework? What do I tell people? I mean, I knew I, I mean, as a person, I'm a courageous person. And the only thing I knew was I was very authentic. I was loyal to myself, my heart. I did. So everybody around me said I was wrong, I was doing the wrong thing, blah, blah, blah.

43:10 I used to just do whatever felt right for me, no matter how difficult. And the cost is very high. I mean, for me at least, I lost everybody in my life. I've gone through things alone in a foreign country. So the cost of do, of becoming an authentic person requires a lot of courage. OK, That's the prerequisite. And you're definitely, you know, it's like you're taking a unique path. So you're moving away from the herd, herd of sheeps. You now want to be a lion. You have to go on your own path. How many people want to do that?

43:43 And it becomes a lonely path. So what do I tell people? Oh, yeah, be courageous, you know, go on your own path. So I actually never thought I could, you know, guide somebody. But I knew that everybody has to come home. This is the place everybody needs to, you know, come home and begin their real life, not the manufactured fake life that we are living, you know, which is basically a consequence of all the garbage from around us people. And I'm in blah, blah, blah. But I didn't know. So I kept quite for a long time, didn't really know that I had anything else.

44:22 The only thing I thought was I could write about it. OK. And I was a bookworm growing up. I didn't have any role models as people, but so libraries and books where my role models. So I thought, you know what? The only thing I'm going to do is write about it. Some girl sitting in some corner of the world crying over her miserable life is going to read this book. And my life, you know, will be like, so worthwhile just because I wrote this book. It'll be my contribution by writing that book. And funny, funny, funny thing, little did I know, even to write about your own life, it's not going to happen.

45:02 I sat down so many times in the last decade to write that book. And you would think, what is that? To think so much? You lived a life right about it, right? That's what an autobiography or a memoir is. You don't have to invent stuff. You don't have to imagine stuff. You're not creating a story. You're just writing. The past didn't happen for nine years. So that that is that is what happened. I had to wait for nine years, but slowly. I want to just tell you quickly about I continued living my life working in the global banking, you know, tech environment.

45:38 And then I was a conscious person, you know, I became very observant. I was doing the best. But what happened was I have another gift, which is like curiosity. I am very good at following bread crumbs, synchronicities I call them. So you start recognizing, I mean, the world, the universe is only patterns. It's very cyclic, it's very pattern based and everything is maths, which is the subject I hated the most as a child. But it's slowly. What happened was over periods of time there would be bread crumbs.

46:16 So I'm like, oh, OK, something is pulling, I have to follow this, whether I would get a message, whether assigned. So I was good at doing that. So what happened was somebody would say, oh, watch this documentary, you know, based on what I'm talking or what they sense about me. You know, I remember this friend of mine said, oh, what's this documentary? Tony Robbins, I'm not your guru on Netflix. I watched it. And after that, I was like, you know what? I can help people. I'll hide behind his teachings.

46:42 Like I enrolled in his institute for five years. I trained as becoming a coach, so I was like, I was always trying to hide. And then I did, you know, I was pulled into these things pulled me in. I never pursued anything because I genuinely didn't think I had anything to offer except for like this two line statement. Be courageous, you know, live your truth. That's it. I could offer that. But then when these gifts started pulling me, for example, past life aggression, it pulled me in. I followed it.

47:16 I did it for a couple of years, hundreds of past life regression sessions over the weekend while I'm doing my banking job for fun. And then I became a, you know, I also trained as a hypnotist for years and past life regression is a branch of that. So for about, you know, for five years, I'm a hypnotist as well. But I was always kind of trying to say which person can I hide behind or which modality can I hide behind? But because I genuinely felt I don't have anything unique or I don't have that, hey, here's the blueprint.

47:48 You can get to the place where I got there. So I kept quiet about it. But you know, last few years, again, I had some difficult chapters in my life. I lost loved ones to this exact same thing, you know, so that moves, you know that it challenges you again and you have to look at your life and say that do I just want to keep staying in a cushy job or shall I take that chance? And again, to answer your question, why did I choose to do high achievers? That is the longest, but after that difficult chapter, right, I felt like, no, let me, you know, I have like enough money in my bank.

48:31 Let me do this for a few years and see where it goes. I have to give it my 100% because again, I was following signs and you know, when you look back, so when you're falling, since I'm like, OK, I'm a coach, I'm trained in all these modalities, right? I'm a coach. But then you pick a niche, right? Because you want to talk to this one unique person. And you know, a lot of times you pull from your own story, right? I was a high achiever. I was this, but I was also an anomaly in a way, right? The reason, even though it's a human experience problem, if I talk to everybody, probably nobody is going to listen to me.

49:08 So and also there is a very particular reason even, you know, even like last year I volunteered with score, which is a non profit in US. We cater to, we give free coaching to business owners, founders, entrepreneurs who are in middle beginning and different stages of their entrepreneur journey. So for when I was coaching hundreds of people, again, you see patterns, right? And here is the key. I at least thought, OK, you know what, I don't know what are the issues of lawyers? Even though it's a human see, once you get into coaching, only 20% is that unique cultural job related traits which you have to deal with.

49:51 80% is still human experience. They're all the same, the patterns, but somewhere you have to start somewhere. So I said, you know, let's start with the high achievers. But when I started doing the lot of coaching for entrepreneurs, I saw this very unique trade. And I'm not, I'm generalizing it because see, I was also a high achiever, but I'm an exception. I've always been, I've always stood out for the, you know, for some reason I have, I had that courage, I had that curiosity. But when we generalize things, even in high performers, I saw one distinct factor between entrepreneurs and high achievers who are in corporate jobs, corporate jobs when you are in that.

50:35 And I, I'll tell you something, it's sometimes environments are so toxic. People are, you know, abusing their teens, their, you know, underlings. It's so bad. You deal with, you know, people and you're like, Oh my God, this guy's going through a divorce and he's bringing all that frustration here and showing it. You know, you see all this. So it used to really like I used to study while doing the job, the one differentiating factor, I even niched down after that because now as I as now, I specifically choose to work with entrepreneurs.

51:09 You know why? Because the differentiating factor, which I found at a general level is entrepreneurs have to take 100% accountability of their work because if they don't do that, they're not getting that money, they're not getting a paycheck. So they have 100% accountability. They're willing to do their work. And I feel like being an entrepreneur when you, you know, it's like moving away from the heart, right? A little bit. You have to have that little bit of, I'm going to see what I can do, you know, a little bit of courage.

51:42 And they don't shy away from doing the work. The personal development piece is intertwined. Actually. If you don't do the work, they will stall. They'll stall at a certain. I have done work with entrepreneurs now people who make millions of dollars. They cap because you know why Tony Robbins says it best business is 80% psychology, 20% strategy. Strategy worked well for three years. You got lucky or your hard work paid off. Now what are you going to do? They want to exit. They're tired of the business, their relationships are empty.

52:18 They're into compulsive behaviors, hiding behind their money. What are you going to do? The cap off? But then they also know only in entrepreneur space. I have seen them hiring coaches because in high performing environments and corporate leaders and I wouldn't even say the executive level leaders. I have not interacted with many leaders who probably go to a coach, but I've seen many who don't. The paycheck is not dependent on their personal development. They still get the paycheck even if they abuse their team, even if they're shit leader at work.

52:58 There are so many politics. I mean, you know, 9 to 5 culture. I know it very well. So many people get abused. There is so much toxicity on so many level. Nobody talks about it. There is no HR systems anymore. Why they've taken the human resource element out. There used to be a team for employee Wellness. So it's a very numbers game. So I was like, you know, this is this is all coming from observation and over the decade, you know, now I'll come to the last point of my decade journey. After nine years, God said, fine, let her write that book.

53:36 So I sat down. I had joined the writing. You know, the attempt was never gone. I would have tried at least once or twice a year. Let's see if I can write this book. So last year, surprisingly, I joined this book thinking even if I write 2 pages, I would have moved the needle a little bit. Let's see. But surprise, surprise, nine years. And again, there are, you know, nine years, 9 is a completion. You know how we have nine months in the womb for a child. I feel like I was reborn that night in 2016, nine years later.

54:10 I mean, I was given the opportunity to bring forth the book into the world. Three months. I had the first draft ready and then it took me a little bit more time to because I was self-publishing the book. And then a few months ago the book realized from Rock bottom to unconditional love came out. So that's my 33 years of journey to that night's experience. And then as I was writing it finally, you know, I always thought I was struggling. What is my what is my unique thing? I was also, you know, the universe was like, don't worry about it.

54:49 This silent emotional crisis also surfaced while I was writing the book. I mean, I'm just saying. But, you know, the universe gave it to me. I didn't create it. Like, logically, you all say that. OK, This is the thing. Finally, when I was given that term, I mean, it's like all the pieces fell into place. I'm like nobody else, At least the way I can talk about it to my clients, right? I'm not telling the whole world. Nobody can do a better job because I know this. I've lost people. I was there and I can speak from a depth because I don't usually use a spiritual language too much, though I can use it.

55:37 I assess my client how they are, and again, spiritual language is nothing but your true nature. But we have to assess, you know, I have to assess where they are in their journey. So I tried to use regular normal language to dig them deeper, you know, and then there are different factors and then, you know, that is why I kind of also landed on that term. I'm hoping that I come out with a book just on silent emotional crisis in the next year or so. So yeah, that's my corner. And I'm going to hopefully, you know, do more work on in that corner.

56:15 And you're right in questioning me. Why are you choosing only one category? You know, you have to start somewhere. I'm in. You have to start with the most enthusiastic people are willing to do the work because this work is not for the faint hearted and sorry. That's a great reply. Yeah, you have to start somewhere. And then, you know, as my work grows, you know, people will find, people will find the work. The work will find people who need it. Labels are just, you know, utilitarian in nature to begin with.

56:48 Definitely. I, I, I would say something that it's not necessary to have those a conditions or that those abbreviations next to next to your name. I think so. The person who has gone through, the person who has gone through all these things can handle these kind of people better than any psychiatrist or better than any certified person. A quick one. Yeah, a quick one. What does coming home to who you already are actually involved? Is there any first step for someone who is hearing this today?

57:26 OK, yes, see, let me start from the phrase that you have given me, right? Coming home. So if you ask any person in this whole wide world, right, what is the feeling that evokes when they think about, oh, I'm going home now. So it's of comfort, I would say. Would you agree? Yeah, yeah. Because home is where we are comfortable, isn't it? Definitely. Home is where we don't want to perform. We are like, OK, you know what? I'm gonna, you know, I'm home now. It's in exhale. You're not performing, you're just chilling.

58:07 You're doing whatever you want to do. Listen to whatever music, do whatever you want to do. So it's like an exhalation. It's a relaxation. It's just like, all right, I'm comfortable now. So now take that emotional feeling, right? That that emotional feeling. So just when we look around and I want to go back, right? So a lot of us had to were pulled away when we were little children. We were home anywhere, you know, in our uncle's house, you know, you know, I'm just generally speaking, you know, we would be home anywhere because we are comfortable because we don't have so many.

58:49 We're not so conscious about our behavior when we are young. You know, this child is, you know, you know, like this anyway, right? But as we start becoming, you know, our age increases, then, you know, we start performing, right? Oh, I'm, I'm here. So we become conscious of where we are, how we are supposed to behave, what we are supposed to talk, not talk. So that is what starts happening, right? So basically as people, we start living these lives, right? So when I say coming home, 1 is I, it's, it's in 2 levels, right?

59:24 One is realizing your true nature, right? That is our ultimate home, right? We come from the same source energy. We are a spark of light, a spark of life, right? For a temporary amount of time, we separate. And right now it is, you know, a spark of life exists in your body, in my body. And when we die, it will go back, right? That is there. So that is your ultimate home. That is in one sense, but in the second sense, let's just say very simple. That is where I actually do most of my work to is also like you want to become that five year old kid.

1:00:04 So basically you have to do all this unlearning what Why did you develop this habit? Why did you become such a high achiever? You know, I was telling you a lot of. Entrepreneurs start businesses just because they're trying to avoid some situation at home in their personal life or this is the issue. Let me create a business around it. I'm not saying everybody, but what are you running away from? Because we can use different things to run too, right? So the, the whole journey is inwards. You, you come back.

1:00:43 So I'm, I'm gonna keep pulling you back to become that five year old kid where now you're at least home in your body, your home in your mind, your home in your heart. And then you're at least comfortable in who you are. And I'm not saying I am not telling the client who they have to become. I'm going to bring them back to who they were always. So it's a lot of unlearning, deprogramming, removing a lot of gunk. So it's actually a lot of detox, you know, on so many levels. It's actually very hard work because, you know, a lot of times the world we live in, nobody wants us to be healthy because we are not will not be useful to them.

1:01:30 Perfect and. Yeah, if. Yeah, go ahead. A1 Liner. A1 Liner, for who are listening right now and those are involved in this issue. Those are having their most darkest point in their life right now. What should they do right now? Never give up. Asking for help is an option, even if you're not taught. So ask for help, Reach out first of all, don't give up on yourself and be courageous and look for the help. Look for help no matter how it looks. Keep looking and you will find the help. Because you know what I'm in.

1:02:11 With my own experience, I've learned that God will appear in, you know, even if no human being appears. For me, God appeared. Definitely the faith. You have to be. You have to be on your faith. Yeah, Whatever religion you are practicing, whoever you are practicing, whoever you are worshipping. I think faith, if you have your faith, nothing gonna happen to you. Universe will show you the signs you have to accept. You have to find out those signs. You have to learn how to reach out. And I think that that's the best thing.

1:02:47 Apart from all these, your work, your silent emotional crisis,

1:02:54 the darkest point, the weakest point. Cut off all these things. Tell me something. You told us that you spent 10 minutes studying a menu, convincing yourself that you will try something new. Then you order your usual anyway. So what's that usual? What is the dish you keep on almost ordering every time looking the menu for 10 minutes? You know, it's so funny because recently there is this new restaurant that's opened up here and I've lived here for almost 2 decades, the maximum options and you know, I love food.

1:03:30 So the maximum options if you get a Indian restaurant. I'm actually now plant paste, so I don't eat out too much now because my options are very limited and the ones available are not worth it. But once in a while you'll find a restaurant that's good. And recently there is a restaurant that's opened up and you know, in US, if you're like, oh, if you get an Indian restaurant, depending on again, where you are, the proximity, you're very happy in general. But recently the restaurant that opened up, I grew up in Bangalore, South India, there is a restaurant that's opened up called is Bangalore Tiffin Rooms.

1:04:08 I was so excited, I went there. They have a wonderful menu, so many items. And I studied it, as I told, I studied it for a good 15 minutes. And I knew that the only thing I'm going to keep reordering this item here again and again is the Masal Dosa, the Bangalore Special Masal Dosa, you know, So it's just I do that with almost all of my favorite, you know, even if I have my favorite Chinese restaurant, I try my best. I'll be like, no, this time I'm going to try something else. But there's something that, you know, I just keep coming back to my favorite item on the menu.

1:04:48 Ron, where can people find your work, your book, and what is coming next?

1:04:57 My book is out on Amazon. It's called as realized from Rock Bottom to Unconditional Love. And apart from that, I also have a website for the book. There are a lot of free resources that I give. There is like realized quiz, There is a reflection guide. There is also a mini course, the websitesnameisrealizedbook.com. The mini course is called called as End the War Within. It's an amazing, you know, mini course like, you know, the resource which can help you move the needle a little bit. Definitely.

1:05:34 So I've put a lot of good content in there so they can find some great resources on the book website. And the other website that I have which I'm recently created also is roneofficial.com. This is for my coaching programs. So I'm changing my business model a little bit. So I will be launching programs, group coaching, you know, models and also one-on-one, which is like very personalized. So all the way from general coaching, right? And then the more time they get to spend with me, the more personalized coaching that they get.

1:06:14 So there are different models to the coaching. So that is roanofficial.com. So yeah, those are the resources. And of course I'm I'm trying to be consistent on social media. YouTube channel will be launching soon where I will again be putting out a lot of content there as well. Perfect. So Rohan's whole message comes down to this, that reach outreach out and ask for help. There's nothing wrong with you. You don't need to become someone else, you just need to come home to who you already are. Rohan's links, her book details, her upcoming Master class, and website details I'll put down in the show notes below.

1:06:52 Thank you, Ron, for trusting us with this. Until next time, this has been everyday conversations. Subscribe and follow us and stay tuned. Thank you so much, Ron. Thank you, Amin.